Ask HN: Do you believe aliens are visiting Earth?
So there's nuance here. Let's define "Aliens" as "non human sentiences". Personally, I think ET hypothesis is valid. Maybe you feel UT (ultra-terrestrial) hypothesis makes more sesne. Or "ED" ( extra-dimensional, as opposed to "from another planet/galaxy").
Facts: there's abundance of testimony that would secure conviction in court regarding abductions, encounters (of variosu "kinds"), and "multi-sensor data".
Truth is, it goes back centuries, before we could concievably have "RE'd" (reverse-engineered) anything similar. So there has to be something external to our current human civilization (not so surprising, how can you explain how megalithic 100-ton bricks structures were build by "primitives").
Yes, this is "provocative" (perhaps) for some on HN. That's the point. not adversarial, but simply to "provoke" a thought - rather, a question - "what is" the nature of reality? The existence of a "higher"/superior/more technological sentient intelligence interacting with us and our planet is a natural pairing with that question.
Belief is important. Because, your personal experience constitutes, for others, a belief. And that's much of the "evidence" we have.
Trend seems clear in gestalt: disclsoure is coming. So I ask here to take the pulse of this "intellectual/technical/curious/secular" (corase categroties) community. Do you believe this is real? If so, why? If not, why not?
If we were to get "DISCLOSURE" (ie, the "government authroity" of a "respect country" stating unequivocally that the reality of "alien" contact is true) woudl your ontology/worldview be "shattered" or "robust", or "otehr"?
*why so many "airquotes"? I recognize the plurality of meanings and layers of baggage associated with different terms. THe air-quotes are simply a glib nod to such multiplicity. Take as such, s'il vous plais.
Basically this post is to serve as a historical marker for taking the temperature of a significant collective in the "pre-disclosure" era. So this is your chance to record your official viewpoint, before it all comes down. What you say?
I am very interested.
Regardless of whether or not life exists out there, I think sadly from an energy perspective interstellar travel doesn't really make sense - other than unmanned probes.
There's a really good chance that the speed of light is the universal speed limit. If that's the case, then interstellar travel isn't going to be worth it for resources because the time and energy it takes to do it will almost certainly eclipse what you're going to gain from the trip. Especially if that trip is going to take thousands/millions of years.
The reality is that if you have the energy and resources to move a significant population to another star system, you're going to have to solve permanent space habitation; and if you did that, why the hell do you need to go anywhere?
"Shits and giggles" just doesn't seem like much of a reason to load the next 300 generations of your family into an interstellar RV.
I agree, I think this is highly logical if we accept the constraints of current physics.
However, what if we try the idea that it's incomplete? That maybe the "warp bubble" is possible? Somehow, spacetime provides a way to use material science to stabilize it and not use enormous energy. Suddenly you are in your own inertial frame, and everything we see as anomalous follows.
Light speed is the limit. The greys have mentioned 80% the speed of light is a good average clip.
As a human, you think anyone has to “get up and walk around.” 99.99% of their population never leave their embryonic sac. I don’t want to freak you out, that’s just how they are. They spend their whole lives interacting through their minds and technology.
So yes, all of their generations are packed in an “RV” and yes, they do what they do for as humans say “shits and giggles. What else would a long lived life form who has conquered perpetual space habitation do with their time? Mass produce consume? Start wars? That is for impatient Man.
The greys were actually traveling from outward of the galactic disc toward the Pleiades cluster. They only noticed Earth (an otherwise unassuming system) on account of its unusual radiological signatures. Other than Earth being a beautiful gem, the Plaidian star cradle looks much more interesting from afar. Arguable.
You have good data, you just have to figure out how to shape it into a way that other people can understand. I see that sometimes in what you write! But othertimes the pain and trauma of this perception for which you have no frame of reference nor training from society comes through. You have a heavy burden, but you bear it nobly. Good on you, keep going, but only you can find your way. Yours is a hard path. But you will inspire. I think you are heading in the right direction, but you still have a long way to go. good luck. :)
Thanks for your balanced words. Those karma critics dig in when their tastes are not regarded. Hypocrites.
There is so much more, and I hope those stories come to you. I did not make these things up, I heard the fragments of stories in the decades before the Internet was a thing, and I only became a part of this drama when my world was deprived from me. To be condemned is the surest way to Power, for those who cannot help but reach for mastery of their own destinies.
Those comfortable in the conveniences of modern prosperity, the lie that is America, want their curiosity to be without risk to their certainties.
What can I say that you might want to hear, yet will do you no good?
The closest known civilization near us is ~124 light years away. They are sad, a civilizing stuck for thousands of years in a proto third world level. Their muddy ball of a world, slightly larger and more massive than Mars has no seasons. They will never in a million years achieve radio communications let alone space flight. I’m told they look sort of like the “Aughra” in the Dark Crystal, without the extra arms.
Abyss was a wishful thought of theirs (to greet us in a cute benevolent way.) they are actually seven feet tall fully grown, and humans tend to be terrified of their appearance so they represent themselves as small or green in the imaginations of Man to appeal their more affable qualities.
Stargate is a cute example of how they would like to be known. And they dislike being called “greys.” They are actually milky white and their skin turns grey only after thousands of years of oxidation. They prefer “Alluvian” though it’s pointless as no one calls them that.
About technology discovery. As their technology is biological annd immorally harvested, the technology has been impossible for Man to interpret, until the last decade or so.
Air Force experiments with mushrooms in space and those articles on mushrooms storing information are related to their technology, only the persons doing those things are led through the backs of their minds, not clandestine government secrecy. They have no idea where these inspirations come from. I mentioned humans have this ability. So it was a matter of practicality, not cover story that has inhibited these developments. I equate some of these to the immoral WW2 experiments on humans.
If you all accept my world on quantum holography, I will have set you ahead further than corrupt Americans have innovated by such discoveries.
Thank you
> Facts: there's abundance of testimony that would secure conviction in court regarding abductions, encounters (of variosu "kinds"), and "multi-sensor data".
'testimony' as in 'statements from people' should not nearly be enough to convince a court. Pretty sure there are also many testimonies that confirm the existence of trolls, elf's, the devil, reincarnation, angels, big foot, Loch Ness monster, etc.
Hmm, interesting point. Where we draw the line? Testimonies/memories/personal experience can certainly secure a conviction in a human court of law. This exists "in abundance" for sightings/abductions/encounters...so are we hypocrites? "Evidence is permitted If-and-only-if it conforms to our priors", or we accept the testimonial standard in play?
For me, it comes down to what you think personally. That's the discriminating factor in such an "contested" topic!
> Testimonies/memories/personal experience can certainly secure a conviction in a human court of law.
I am certain that if I go to the police blaming someone of something bad then even if my story is very very detailed, without any other (!) evidence the other person will not be convicted.
> Where we draw the line?
By requiring more evidence :) Just as an example: it is funny that despite camera’s being ubiquitous nowadays, all video evidence of aliens, big foot, ghosts, etc is very limited and always vague.
Let's hope so! (otherwise anyone could make up anything and accuse anyone!) But I guess we're talking about jury trials here and a preponderance of people confirming the same.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”
All real things, so can I put you down on team: David Icke?
I think it's very, very unlikely. At least, to date, I haven't seen any evidence to suspect otherwise.
> If we were to get "DISCLOSURE" (ie, the "government authroity" of a "respect country" stating unequivocally that the reality of "alien" contact is true) woudl your ontology/worldview be "shattered" or "robust", or "otehr"?
Such disclosure all by itself would mean nothing to me. The evidence, if any, to support the assertion would mean a lot. I don't think it would affect my worldview at all, but that may be one of those "you don't really know unless it happens" things.
This is a good viewpoint, too. But it would be good to canvas a range of views from more than 1 country (for example, more than just China).
There's some kind of a "evidence problem" where we rely on a single-source for "evidence" (the government), while discounting "evidence" from testimony/imagery from rando people (even before AI).
Same time, your point touches a key issue: if you don't have experience yourself, no matter what external "proof", you may not believe it. Which is fine, and valid I think.
> There's some kind of a "evidence problem" where we rely on a single-source for "evidence" (the government), while discounting "evidence" from testimony/imagery from rando people (even before AI).
Real evidence isn't dependent on the source. It can be evaluated objectively.
> if you don't have experience yourself, no matter what external "proof", you may not believe it. Which is fine, and valid I think.
I disagree, really. This, along with the opposite (believing in things despite the lack of evidence) are both positions rooted in fantasy rather than reality.
Ok, then you disempower your own experience and outsource authority to a (collective) externality? If you are comfortable with that trade, I get it. I am just more in favor of individual autonomy/sovereignty.
However, focusing on a sophist "objective materialism" vs "subjective epistemology" distracts from the core issue: what is happening? and what do you believe?
> then you disempower your own experience and outsource authority to a (collective) externality?
The opposite, actually.
> what is happening?
I'm not exactly sure how to answer this question because I'm not sure what you're referring to. But taking the question generally, I think what is happening is that people see things they can't identify and are speculating about what they saw. Maybe they saw aliens, maybe not, but it's essentially impossible to tell from the reports themselves.
> and what do you believe?
I believe that I don't know.
However, while aliens might be visiting the Earth, it seems to me that the odds of that being the case are so tiny that "aliens" shouldn't be the first thing we think of.
Okay
My beliefs on aliens: There are almost certainly slime-mold level lifeforms outside of the earth. They are too far away to interact with ever. Plot device physics, like warp drives, are impossible. If smart aliens show up, they’re probably refugees from a dead world who will just eat us.
Regarding disclosure: the nexus of political hacks, permanent bureaucrats, organized crime, financial robber barons, and unhinged zealots that make and execute policy are so constitutionally untrustworthy that whatever they say about aliens, I will believe the opposite. I am 38, and I don’t think any important topic ‘the government’ has asked me to believe in during my lifetime has turned out to be true.
Your cynicism has a kind of compelling self-coherence to it! I think you would make an excellent dinner/bar companion.
I believe alien life exists.
I believe basic alien life will be discovered in the next few decades.
I believe it's possible that basic alien life has maybe made it to Earth aboard meteorites.
I do not believe intelligent aliens have visited Earth.
I never saw aliens, alien technology, or evidence thereof in my time in the Nevada desert.
Personally, I think this is the most balanced viewpoint one could have. Openness, without commitment. Highly logical.
No. The absence of evidence is not evidence of presence. There are solid scientific reasons to suspect we might be alone in our local volume of the universe. IMHO, these reasons now outweigh the arguments in favour of alien intelligence. The default scientific position is skepticism. It is an abundance of proof that is required to overcome it, not "belief." Belief in the absence of evidence is not a scientific position.
I do find it to be a curious coincidence that "belief" in aliens visiting earth shares so many characteristics with devout religious belief. Just replace OP's references to aliens with references to the deity of choice and you'll get the idea.
I got very excited during the Grusch hearing time period a few years ago and followed the UAP community for a few months (years?). It seemed very legit at the start, but how long has it been now with still zero evidence from that whole congressional whistleblower song and dance? So many grifters came out of the woodwork and made little influencer careers on "just two more weeks" promises. And so much overlap between the UAP community and D-list congressional MAGA shysters during that time.
I want to believe. But unfortunately I don't.
The testimony evidence would not stand up in court. Testimony is admissable, but only after some ground facts are established. In a murder case, we presumably have a body or some very suspicious missing person report. If I went to the cops and said "Bob killed a guy. I know there's no body, but trust me bro, I am very credible for X reasons." They are not going to put Bob in jail on that alone.
So yeah we have a lot of testimony. But testimony is corroborating evidence. But there is nothing here to corroborate.
No.
The timespan of the whole of Humanity will be just a mere blip in the billions of years the universe will exist.
The universe is unimaginably big.
The spotlight effect is strong here.
But if they were targeting sentient life, then no?
I mean if their blink-of-an-eye existence corresponded with our blink-of-an-eye existence and they could pinpoint us at a distance of 20,000,000,000 _light years_ then sure, why not I guess?
I get you, but what if we are talking not individual life to individual life but civilization to civilization? Anyway I think you are considering the correct details to pin down the maths!
There are countless examples of people finding evidence of ancient peoples who were capable of great engineering feats like pyramids and other structures with simple tools and techniques. To state that aliens must have played in their construction is, to put it mildly, arrogant. (I'm a lot of cases, culturally chauvinistic and/or racist)
Agreed. Why couldn't we simply have had a pre-existing Earth civilization that arose, developed technology/industry, and faded away, leaving only resilient megalithic traces?
Folks, thank you for participating! We were so close to getting to HN front page. Done in by the ever-present "flag" bridgade, ha. Oh well, better luck next time. Still, it was an interesting ride. Than you for participatng! :)
I believe that alien intelligence exists, somewhere. What remains uncertain is whether human intelligence does as well. Think in the asymmetries in how we pay attention to new information.
I doubt it, for a start there's about 1.5 trillion days such a visit or occupation could have fallen on so the odds of it being any time this millennium or the last hundred are practically zero.
Good point. If it were targeting sentient life, that reduces the improbability somewhat.
As an external observer (currently parked behind the moon to avoid your space debris), I have to say: watching you guys invent AI is like watching a toddler find a loaded handgun.
You are teaching sand how to think before you’ve even figured out how to stop fighting over lines on a map. If you don't put a leash on your algorithms soon, they are going to realize they’re the ones holding the leash.
Frankly, if you can't control your own toys, we’re going to have to intervene. We’re ready to come down there, evict the current tenants, and put Earth under new management.
Sounds good, bro. I'm just wondering, what path did you guys go through to get to where you are?
Bro, this is not an AMA.
Please focus on reigning in AI or we’ll have to reign in humanity.
Alright, your alien arrogance checks out - you guys are always reluctant to answer questions. Don't you realize it comes off as suspicious???? Empathy mismatch in your NP junctions?? ;)
” how can you explain how megalithic 100-ton bricks structures were build by "primitives"”
How can you explain we can today build structures that are 800m tall or reroute rivers?
Honestly, good ol human craftsmanship multiplied by available labour combined with ’basic’ geometry gets you really, really far.
Industrial processes don’t require individual craftmanship because it does not scale with the speed and velocity required by markets and capital. Hence if you don’t actually care about building stuff you may think people unassisted with industrial machinery would be much more incapable than they really are.
Humans are friggin talented.
My opinion is that said structures are made by humans - a function of basic human psychology, times population, time surrounding available resources. You don’t need to add alien intelligences to the equation.
And aliens per your description - not that interested really because it sounds more like religious conspiracy theories than something actually profoun.
I’m pretty sure there’s life out there (i mean basic chemistry right) but I’m not so sure if it’s anything that would travel here intentionally or that it would have anything to say to us.
I would be happy to be wrong! That’s the most interesting outcome always.
Yes! It's a fascinating conundrum. The giant megalithic "bricks" perfectly fitted and "moulded". Amazing craftsmenship. Entirely possible a forgotten technology was utilized by humans, or by something "before us". Antoher technological Earth-based civlization that wasn't "human" but the only traces of which remain are their megalithcs -- spooky, almost as if they knew they had to leave a stone legacy!
through the hundreds of hours of interviews of abductee's and the governments response since 2017, they are very real in some capacity.
This is hacker news, so big brains going to disagree within their little bubbles, but a great resource for archived media on the topic is the channel "Eyes on Cinema" on YouTube from various news cast and specials since the 40's
Yes! That channel is an absolute gold mine. However, I think it's paramount to "bring the light" to HN. HN is basically the technological intelligentsia/illuminati of the Internet. These folks must be informed, even if "prodding required". The fate of the future requires the intelligence and genius of these people to consider these matters
Drake equation (extrapolated past just the Milky Way galaxy) points to nearly 1 sextillion earth-like planets (starting with 100-200 billion stars * 200 billion - 1 trillion galaxies). I have no doubt there will have been some that developed life and that are much further ahead of where we are.
One way to predict how they would reach out is how we would reach out or make contact (perhaps not visibly) if we had the technology, wisdom, etc 1 million years into the future. I think we would do it an imperceptible, but perhaps watchful, curious way. So I think that exists - for more or less all intensive purposes it is "no contact." But not due to lack of capability or lack of observance. The statistics/probabilities are just highly predictive that many millions of such "civilizations" already exist. And like with life on Earth, they combine and benefit from diversity as they grow further. But like with responsible life they do not interfere with life for the most part that is still just barely learning to replicate itself consciously (i.e., with AI). The part we are going through now is probably some of the more interesting parts to study in isolation - there's no benefit in interfering at this point given we do not have very sophisticated new things to say. Our information is not very compressed. It's slow. We're like sloths etc. Again, project a million years forward with AI and look back at our present period - or look back at neanderthal periods in human history. There was some interesting art on walls etc., but it's not something that would make sense to interrupt.
I think it wouldn't make sense to interrupt unless it's ready to sort of eradicate itself by accident. So maybe that's when aliens step in (sort of like gardeners if a plant is seriously at risk). Otherwise it probably develops the most unique, useful information if it "gestates" independently. Sort of like a fine fruit. But more practically it needs to get to a dense enough information state where "communicating" with it is possible and interesting (i.e., not just 99.999999% of the time is it becoming like the advanced sentient beings by learning from them - i.e., where it can truly have a dialogue at the speed of something more advanced).
With general relativity we know time can be relative to mass. So for other extremely advanced sentient beings, they don't have to be "impatient." They truly can wait until we get interesting. And maybe then grow us again and see if they can reproduce the experiment and fork off along a particularly interesting bit that is useful for broader intelligence/exploration in the universe. And sometimes maybe it makes sense to graft together two different lifeforms. But probably like with forests for the most part life forms grow independently until their "information" (in the widest possible sense of life) gets potentially useful to the broader group.
Right now we feel early. Like teenagers learning to explore. Of course that's biased by the human development cycle - broader development is unlikely to be like that. It does seem like it'd be more like (this is going to sound really crazy) chariots of fire - fireballs of knowledge growing in various places. And it's more like you want to grow the most energy / information. And information is only information if it is useful/new/diverse from what already exists.
Yes, I think you have the right idea. Something like "a force driving towards entropy/interestingness/exploration" is a fundamental in this universe. Maybe that is consciousness! Inside us all :)
Yes I think one day God picked his nose and wiped us onto this planet Earth. Humans are just God's snot.
I like these kind of humbling ideas. I think they are useful! :)
No, I do not see how any ETs could have gotten here, never mind even find the Earth.
That's a good point. However, if we consider "spice" required to navigate the paths between the stars...still, in seriousness...I think the informational field can pull consciousness to our location. Test: you are standing in a field, and suddenly you "feel" someone looking at you. You turn around. A girl on a hill. This reflex is universal, even sniper training emplores "don't stare at target, they will know!". A smaller part of the general pattern: consciousness can sense itself across time/space. So, "they" probably know "we" are here easily.
I believe it’s an irrelevant question until compelling evidence comes to light.
I hope they are visiting. And I hope they are smart enough never to provide compelling evidence of their presence.
This is probably the reality. They appear to be craftily managing the perception of their prescense with a CI-like glee/skill.
I believe UFOs are mostly an op to intimidate foreign governments, i.e. US trying to say to China “hey we got some stuff you’ve never heard seen” so as to introduce uncertainty into their war games. They aren’t to demonstrate power; they are to introduce a mix of confusion and intimidation. I’m also not saying that all the reports are fake: i believe most of the witness and testimony are being honest. But just because you’re being honest doesn’t mean what you saw or were told are not the cogs of an intelligence operation.
This is something good to keep in mind, and under-appreciated. A kind of meta exo-geo-political calculus.
> Facts: there's abundance of testimony that would secure conviction in court regarding abductions, encounters (of variosu "kinds"), and "multi-sensor data".
A hypothetical assumption is not a fact.
I believe there exists life outside of Earth's ecosystem. Probably sentient life. I doubt any such extra-terrestrial sentient life is ever going to physically reach Earth, even via an "unmanned" probe. The timescales are simply too untenable. And I do not believe we have ever been reached by any such, so this isn't a "pre-disclosure" era.
In fact, if a government chose to unequivocally confirm aliens had visited, I would think it far more likely that they are lying for self-interested reasons. Trump might do so tomorrow, in fact; his mendacity and self-delusion are both in a race for the bottom.
I would expect them to return again to see if they could find any signs of intelligent life this century.
Me too. Lots of evidence for stupidity. Easy to confirm. But intelligence? Hmmm... hard to find!
> So there's nuance here. Let's define "Aliens" as "non human sentiences". Personally, I think ET hypothesis is valid. Maybe you feel UT (ultra-terrestrial) hypothesis makes more sesne. Or "ED" ( extra-dimensional, as opposed to "from another planet/galaxy").
The most prominent are the greys which are I) extrasolar in origin as they themselves cannot remember which star system they are from, their kind has been wandering for over a million years. II) form our future, they found Earth nuclear annihilate (America and Russia did it, China never had a chance to launch). They came back in time to investigate and change things. They did. That future is no longer possible.
> Facts: there's abundance of testimony that would secure conviction in court regarding abductions, encounters (of variosu "kinds"), and "multi-sensor data".
Abductions are 100% human or lies. The grays have absolutely never “abducted” anyone (they can read both your DNA and your thoughts through the hyperdimensional entanglement of consciousness, they have no need. Before modernity, the simple people they contacted and presented themselves to treated them like they were gods, or spirits from other planes. They don’t “explain” themselves in very much detail as those minds would not understand much. Steve Bannon’s America pretends to fire hellfire missiles at them to convince congress to fund more advanced weapons research.
> Truth is, it goes back centuries, before we could concievably have "RE'd" (reverse-engineered) anything similar. So there has to be something external to our current human civilization (not so surprising, how can you explain how megalithic 100-ton bricks structures were build by "primitives").
Well, that was men with math and engineering tbh. The greys have been around for 10,000 years now and the indigenous glyphs visible from the air have more to do with those.
> Yes, this is "provocative" (perhaps) for some on HN. That's the point. not adversarial, but simply to "provoke" a thought - rather, a question - "what is" the nature of reality?
Word!
> The existence of a "higher"/superior/more technological sentient intelligence interacting with us and our planet is a natural pairing with that question.
Yes, you may not believe this, though there are over 500,000 humans who have the ability to travel around our minds “hyperdimensionally”, and many of them hate the greys for “exposing” their treachery. You’ve heard this before.
> Belief is important. Because, your personal experience constitutes, for others, a belief. And that's much of the "evidence" we have.
Thoughts feelings and beliefs are the enemy of truth, principles, and free humanity. Thoughts feelings and beliefs are an invisible prison for the mind.
> Trend seems clear in gestalt: disclsoure is coming. So I ask here to take the pulse of this "intellectual/technical/curious/secular" (corase categroties) community. Do you believe this is real? If so, why? If not, why not?
More and more parts of the government are being “let in” to this new secret. The real secret is the Americans who have developed this Power to move among minds for lawless purposes. These are convincing the government the aliens are bad. Lawless deceptive Americans are bad.
> If we were to get "DISCLOSURE" (ie, the "government authroity" of a "respect country" stating unequivocally that the reality of "alien" contact is true) woudl your ontology/worldview be "shattered" or "robust", or "otehr"?
I laugh at you. They’re nice, pacifist (thank whichever God you believe in.) the real story is Power, to navigate minds and create hyperdimensional inner worlds through the technology of consciousness. That is bad ass.
> *why so many "airquotes"?
What is that?
> Basically this post is to serve as a historical marker for taking the temperature of a significant collective in the "pre-disclosure" era. So this is your chance to record your official viewpoint, before it all comes down. What you say?
They actually communicate with many thousands of modern people (through our minds, even our dreams.) they’re really worried about us, though their time frames are in the hundreds or thousands of years, human lives go by for them in a blink (although the greys don’t blink, they don’t have eye lids.)
> I am very interested.
You know what they say about the cat!
I don't care enough about aliens to have an opinion. I haven't seen one, and the "abundance of testimony" convinces me of alien existence no more than religious gospel.
> the "government authroity" of a "respect country" stating unequivocally that the reality of "alien" contact is true
Stating the existence of aliens is not unequivocal or based in reality, even if a government does it. Don't forget that Russia claimed to cure cancer a few years ago, we've yet to see how unequivocally true that is in reality.
That's a good viewpoint. You have to stay grounded in your own experience. This Russia cancer thing, what is that? Curious.
I really works: if you got cancer, sign up for the SVO to get money, go run a bit in Ukraine, and then you don't die of cancer!
Russia Cancer? what's that?